The "Sanctity of Marriage"
...even if it's a sham, it's still legal.
I came across this story about yet another gay couple who applied for a marriage license out in Seattle. I would never have thought to do this, which is just as well. The more I think about it, the dumber this whole marriage issue becomes.
Last week, Dan Savage went to the King County Administration Building (Seattle) and asked for a marriage license. And, he got one...
The only issue is, and this may be a problem for some of you wanting to marry your partner, is that he wasn't able to marry his boyfriend. As Dan put it, "I may be the only openly gay man in Washington State who has a legal marriage license. Unfortunately, it's not a license to marry my boyfriend--the guy I've lived with for 10 years, the guy I started a family with, the guy I'm still crazy about--but a license to marry my coworker, Amy Jenniges. As much as I enjoy working with her, I'm not going to leave my boyfriend for Amy."
Amy Jenniges lives with her girlfriend, Sonia, and I live with my boyfriend, Terry. Last Friday I accompanied Amy and Sonia to room 403, the licensing division, at the King County Administration Building. When Amy and Sonia asked the clerk for a marriage license, the clerk turned white. You could see, "Oh my God, the gay activists are here!" running through her head. County clerks in the marriage license office had been warned to expect gay couples sooner or later, but I guess this particular clerk didn't expect us to show up five minutes before closing on Friday.
The clerk called over her manager, a nice older white man, who explained that Amy and Sonia couldn't have a marriage license. So I asked if Amy and I could have one--even though I'm gay and live with my boyfriend, and Amy's a lesbian and lives with her girlfriend. We emphasized to the clerk and her manager that Amy and I don't live together, we don't love each other, we don't plan to have kids together, and we're going to go on living and sleeping with our same-sex partners after we get married. So could we still get a marriage license?
"Sure," the license-department manager said, "If you've got $54, you can have a marriage license."
[...]
We came to make a point about the absurdity of our marriage laws. Amy can't marry Sonia, I can't marry Terry--why? Because the sanctity of marriage must be protected from the queers! But Amy and I can get a marriage license--and into a sham marriage, if we care to, a joke marriage, one that I promise you won't produce children. And we can do this with the state's blessing--why? Because one of us is a man and one of us is a woman. Who cares that one of us is a gay man and one of us is a lesbian? So marriage is to be protected from the homos--unless the homos marry each other.Is it putting too fine a point on it to say that this is a pretty fucked-up situation? (source)
Not really. I think that kind of sums it up, doesn't it?
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Dan,
I'm really glad that you enjoy the site. It's kind of an addiction with me really, I suppose. :-)
But, it's certainly not for everyone. I am putting my life out in cyberspace for everyone to read about. Even my co-workers read the site, which in some regards, is a bit awkword for me. And, I'm very honest about what's going on with us.
I know of a few other couples on the internet. If you look in my "daily reads" list, they will be listed there. Mostly, the gay couples I know are real-life friends in my area.
Bill,
I love reading your site! You and Kent have been together for so many years and from what I gathered about your relationship, you two really have it great!
As a side note, can you directly me to any other committed gay couples sites that you're aware of?
I also admit that Dan Savage made a great point. I wish I thought of it first! :) In this case, my issue is with the messenger, not the message.
Dan
Dan,
I agree with most everything you said. We are more alike than you think, I think. ;-)
I agree with you about there being lots of studies out there about the non-monogamous and unstable relationships of gay men. Unfortunately, they are done in a vacuum by people who know better (scientifically speaking) and, as you say, have an agenda of their own. All one has to do is look at the divorce rates of straight marriages. I mean, come on! Fifty percent end in divorce for who knows what reason. But, I would venture to guess that the greatest majority of them are because of infidelity.
I believe in the sanctity of marriage as well, but that’s not the same sanctity of marriage THEY are talking about. Their sanctity of marriage is keeping gays away from marriage. MY sanctity of marriage is making marriage more than it is now. I’m unsatisfied with what it is now and if I bring my relationship to my partner down to that standard, my relationship is cheapened by it. So, I regard marriage as a means for equality under the law, not something that I need to strengthen my relationship.
You are right about Dan Savage. I posted the article to show the absurd arguments being used against the issuance of marriage licenses. I think the stunt itself was stupid and, as I said, very risky. It is the sort of thing that our enemies would love to exploit.
In all honesty, my opinion of marriage and our quest for it is somewhat fluid right now. On the surface, it seemed to be what I wanted to complete our marriage. I’ve learned a lot about marriage and it’s short comings and the most annoying thing for me is the hypocrisy surrounding marriage. I HATE hypocrisy. Right now, without marriage, Kent and I have more than most couples we know. We are very happy with each other, more in love than ever, have a beautiful home; life is good! We are missing the protections of marriage. For me, it is less about the sanctity of marriage, and more about the protections marriage offers. We are equal citizens. We have been together for 28 years. We do deserve this.
My fear is still that so many are going to get married just for these protections. Oh, and SOME couples MIGHT actually love each other. If that be the case, we are no better than Britney Spears. Am I making any sense? I feel like I’m rambling on…
Well said Bill! We need to be united not divided.
Bill,
I telecommute and I spend a lot of time on the Internet in various blogs including conservative and christian blogs under various psedo-names, trying to reason people to our point of view.
There are hateful people out there, I don't have to tell you that. There are also people that are not bad really, they are just trying to cautiously sort out the information and decide for themselves. If I was a straight man I would probably be in that last category.
But you know what, there are plenty of studies out there showing gay relationships as too often non-monogamous and unstable. Many conservatives use these studies to "show" that gay men are less capable of monogamous relationships. Ofcourse these people have an agenda usually religious based, but the studies are not wrong! Only the conclusions are wrong!
If Dan Savage's stunt, was to get more publicity, and attention was to shift to him versus what he did then that would be another embarassment.
I DO believe in the "Sanctity" of Marriage, or atleast the sanctity of solid loving committed monogamous relationships, no matter what so many straight people do with it.
The wonderful thing about our gay marriage fight is the fact that couples like the one in San Francisco that have been together for 50+ years are being held as heros and icons in the gay community for a change. This is what we need!
If our fight is for everything goes, the sanctity of marriage is shit anyway, then count me out!
As for "judgement", STD's and bad choices...
God knows I made mistakes! There were times in my late teens early twenties that I've been TERRIFIED to death that I got something!
That is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the gay "community"'s attitude that these bad choices is the way to BE and that is what I'm judgemental about.
One last thing, when I came out as a teenager, my family disowned me. I boarded a Greyhound bus with all I could carry and I came to the midwest to live on a farm with my first boyfriend. Having it rough is NO EXCUSE for disrespecting and abusing yourself and others.
Dan
Boy, fireworks in this entry.... and this is going to probably be the longest comment I've ever made.
Dan, I have read, on rare occasion, the writings of Dan Savage. I wasn't implying that I was a fan of his by any means by publishing this particular piece. As I said in the article, this is not an action that I would have taken, not because I don't have it in me to do something like that; I certainly do. I think that such actions are extremely risky and, in my opinion on the issue of gay marriage, I think we are doing plenty by trying to get marriage licenses and being denied. I also think it is valuable to actually get married where ever we can (San Francisco, New Paltz, Oregon) to show that we really are like other people in wanting the commitment of marriage.
Whatever else you think about Dan Savage, his stunt was genius in the sense of exposing the absolute absurdity of what people call "the sanctity of marriage". The fact that the clerk was willing to give him (an admitted gay man) and his female friend (an admitted lesbian) a marriage license just because they were opposite sex, even after explaining to the clerk that the marriage would have nothing to do with love, honor, children, or commitment, only shows what a "fucked-up situation" it really is. And, my attitudes on marriage have been tarnished by issues such as this.
Quite frankly, there is no "sanctity of marriage". People need to see it for what it is. I no longer hold marriage (the current state of it anyway) up as a standard that I want my relationship with Kent to be. To me, it is now a means to an end. The end being the 855 civil state rights (Connecticut) and the 1,000+ federal rights that are afforded marriage. I wish I could sit here and blow smoke up everyone's ass and say, "marriage is the essence of what I want my relationship to be", but I can't. When I think about the "sanctity of marriage", I will think of Britney Spears along with many others who have worked so hard to make marriage so special.
Marriage is now a political football and is simply being used to keep the homos in their place. How dare they even ask for marriage! Who the hell do the homos think they are? And THAT is what Mr. Savage was showing, that this entire issue has nothing to do with sanctifying marriage, but only keeping us from getting marriage.
Now, let me just briefly say this about drugs, STD's, AIDS and JUDGEMENT.
I have always said that our community really doesn't need enemies, because we do a pretty damn good job a beating ourselves down. I will occasionally watch programs such as Queer as Folk. Now, you can watch that with total disgust over all the sex and drug parties on the show, but guess what; that is part of what we are as a community! So, GET OVER IT.
What we need to realize is that we were really born as a community at the time of Stonewall. Were there gay people before Stonewall? Of course, but that was really the beginning of organization into what we call a community. Then, we had fun - lots of fun. We had sex, we did drugs, we did things that the rest of "normal" society hated. We were "queers", "faggots", and we earned those names. In other words, we rebelled against the norms of society, just as an adolescent child rebels against the norms set by his/her parents. It's very important to note that if you had gotten up on a podium and told a bunch of gay/lesbian people that we want to get married in the 1980's, they would have laughed you off the stage.
Then AIDS came along. We lost many friends. We made many mistakes. Or, some would say we made "bad choices". You know it's not that simple, so please don't try to make it black and white, because it's not. I was there. I held many of my friends when they took their last breath. Many things contributed to them getting AIDS and dying, and it can't be summed up by stating that they made a "bad choice" by taking it up the ass by some unknown stranger who probably didn't even know he had HIV. Where was the support of his family and society when he came out? NO WHERE. Where was the support of his family and society when he got sick? NO WHERE. What did society do to at least extend a hand to him to let him know that he had value? NOTHING. Was there anything, or anyone around to tell that young man, either in our community or society at large, that he "mattered"? NO. That was the culture of our community and if you are denying that, I honestly don't know what world you are living in.
AIDS is a big part of where we are today, but it's not solely responsible. We as a community are in our early twenty's in terms of maturity I believe. We've had our parties. We've "been there, done that". We want more for ourselves and our family. We want marriage. And, no matter what society has done to marriage, I want my marriage to be better than what society holds up to be the norm. Eventually, we will have full marriage rights in all states. I probably won't live to see that, but it will happen. What will we do with that? I suspect we will eventually be faced with divorces and nasty separations - more business for the lawyers. But this too is part of growing up. That is what it means to be part of this society.
We need to be less judgmental of others in our community. Other opinions are valid. If everyone agreed to everything I write in this blog, or what others write, it would be kind of pointless, wouldn't it? I'm not threatened by people disagreeing with me. I embrace it because that's the way I learn and further question my world. But please remember, it's really not necessary to make personal attacks on each other. I think we can all agree that we get enough of that out in the world.
It's going to take a long time for our community to realize that you can still be gay and part of the community, even though you have a waist size of 36". I suppose that's the biggest turn off for me to buy the gay mags now. They aren't realistic. I would much rather see reality, than to see the nice looking gay guys who probably got those abs through steroid use or throwing up. Being a healthy society means embracing diversity. For a community who is always saying "embrace diversity", we do a lousy job of it.
Buck,
Cut the propaganda bullshit. I'm in a monogamous relationship for over 10 years. But I have been around and I know what's around me.
And yes, STD's, AIDS, are HUGE issues in the gay community because of... Guess what... BAD CHOICES!
I make no apologies and I do not consider non-monogamous relationships to be just another type of relationship equals to mine. If people love one another they don't have to make rules on how to sleep with other people without hurting their partners and if you read gay publications you see tons of this crap.
Dan
That has to be one of the worst "comments" I've seen from anyone. Monogamy is rare? I know lots of monogamous couples... more than I do circuit party singles. Guess it's the groups you care to associate with which skew your view. STD's? Never had one.
Dan must be a real piece of work or at least his friends must! Whew!
I hate to do this to you Bill, but Dan Savage is no hero of mine!
In case you don't know who Dan Savage is, he is a very well known figure in Seattle. I believe he's a columnist or something.
My biggest upset with the gay community is gay mens attitude towards relationships and sex. I'll go even further and say that gay people often bring on themselves a lot of what happens with us, from STD's, to let's face it, committed monogamous relatioships being a rarity.
Here's one article by him:
http://www.thestranger.com/2002-06-27/ex7.html
Dan