Trying to Fit In... What Gay Kids Go Through

One of the biggest things that gets me though is sometimes you can tell if someone will be gay, and other times it's a complete surprise when you find out. There probably isn't a real reason for this, but I thought I would put it out there.

I can usually tell if someone is going to turn out to be gay. A number of years ago, a colleague at my company introduced me to his two young boys. I believe the youngest one was eight, and the oldest was 11 years old. They were nice boys. I remember thinking immediately upon meeting the oldest boy, that he was gay. I was sure of it, even though the boy himself may have had no clue about it at the time. I said nothing to his father, of course. His father knew I was gay and had no problem with it. However, I was not sure how he would take the news of his son being gay, since he was Catholic. And besides, it wasn't my business to "out" his son to his father. That was a conversation that his son should have with his father when he is ready to have that conversation.

His father eventually left the company, but we kept in touch. Six years went by, and I got a call from him. He wanted the two of us to have lunch. We did. At that lunch, he told me that his oldest son had told him that he is gay. I had a not so surprised look on my face and said, "So, he finally told you?" My friend asked, "Did you know about this?" I said I did. He asked me why I didn't tell him. I answered, "Because that was up to your son to tell you, not me. I knew that he would when he was better grounded, and ready."

So then, he had all kinds of questions about this. He said, "He had to know that we would love him no matter what." I answered, "Are you kidding? You know what your church says about homosexuality. Have you ever once talked about homosexuals in your household without them being the brunt of some joke? Have they ever been talked about with any respect?" He said, "Well, no, not really." I said, "So, with that in mind, think of what a risk it was, and how brave your son was to trust in your love for him. You should be proud of that!" He admitted that he was very proud of him but was very worried about his safety. I told him that he could help make change happen if he wanted too, and a good place to start would be his church and to work on the attitudes of people. The next place to start would be to put a stop to stupid and hurtful gay jokes that people told in his presence. Now that his son was likely going to be on the receiving end of those jokes, he suddenly saw how cruel they were.

This is a totally out of the blue question, but do you know of any ways to help explain being gay to straight people? Like, some people I know are very close minded about the whole thing and think it's wrong and I don't really know what to say to them and it frustrates me because I have no words. Then I just want to tell them to mind their own business and that relationships don't really need to be all that public anyways. But also relationships shouldn't be something you have to hide either, so I don't know. I guess I just honestly don't see why people make such a big fuss over things that don't concern them, you know?

Straight people will only understand what it is to be gay if they want to understand. Like you Hillary. You want to understand, so you ask questions. Most people want to hold on to there pet prejudices because it takes less effort to change. They will only change if they have a vested interest in changing. For example, I've had female friends who are totally supportive of me. When I met their boyfriends, I was treated with disgust, much to the surprise of their girlfriend, who thought that her boyfriend was this gentle, caring person. Suddenly, she saw another side of him -- one of homophobia and hatred. She told him right then and there that that was unacceptable. She then had a choice to make. It wasn't whether or not to drop him because of this one issue. It was a bigger issue for her. Her thought was something like this.... this attitude of meanness and intolerance a part of his personality that I knew nothing about. Is it something that I can life with? Do I want this person in my life?

Ultimately, she wanted to spend her life with someone who was a more caring and compassionate individual. She dumped him. He of course blamed me for this, and he was left to his own prejudices. But some people will change. If they are faced with losing the person they love, they will try to understand others. All it takes is to examine the validity of stereotypes that people have been told. I also believe that it is honestly impossible for straight people to really understand what it is like to be homosexual. For example, the concept that such a simple act as holding hands while walking down the street could result in you being brutally beaten or killed, would never even be imaginable to straight people. We learn that if we dare to show public affection, this is what we risk. Are there any words to adequately explain to straight people what it feels like to have to completely hide your love for your soul mate to all except for a few cherished friends?

I had a straight male friend once who commented to me that Kent and I never show affection. I responded to him, "We won't. Not around you. We are very well trained." He laughed and thought that was quite funny. I thought it was tragic.

A big number of straight guys still think that gay guys want to get in their pants. I've had guys tell me this, and I respond to them, "Honey, don't flatter yourself." It's as if they can't conceive of a gay guy not wanting them. I always think that is so funny. But that is one of the stereotypes they have been taught. This is at the heart of the problem the military has with allowing openly gay men to serve in the military. They will say that it will "harm unit cohesion", and are concerned about the "tight living quarters" and that it's "unfair to force straight men to live and dress in an area where gay men are, for fear that the gay guys will look at them."

I want to say to them, "GROW UP! You are in the military. If a gay man makes a pass at another man, it should be punished according to the same standards of fraternization with the opposite sex. It is inappropriate behavior, and should be punished accordingly." The straight men also need to become more secure. If another guy finds them attractive, why not simply say, "No thanks, I'm not gay.", and consider the whole thing a compliment?

I've never gotten so angry towards another person before until recently when I realized the whole idea of being gay really was an issue for some people, and I really want to act on this interest and figure out as much as I can about it.

You will never change people who don't want to be changed. The people who go through life holding on to their prejudices miss a lot of what life has to offer. I think one of the best things that is happening now in schools around the country are the Gay/Straight Alliances. Their effort is to provide a safe space for gay, straight, bi, and transgendered students to come together in a safe setting to talk about these issues. They have met with success in many cases. Not surprisingly, they have also met with resistance from many parents who don't want their children exposed to the "gay agenda". Keep in mind, these parents are the same people who instilled this homophobia on their kids to begin with. So for them to resist having these groups is not a surprise. Even many of the school districts have resisted these Gay/Straight Alliance groups and have tried to keep them out of schools. This has been met at times with lawsuits against the schools for violating the Federal Equal Access Act. Ironically, this act was put into place to prevent groups dealing with religion from being denied equal access to school facilities for after-school meetings in school facilities. Many of the same people trying to prevent the Gay/Straight Alliances had the law thrown back at them via lawsuits that stated that baring Gay/Straight Alliance meetings meetings violated that act.

Not that one person being more informed would really help that much, but maybe in the long run or something.

You would be surprised the power and change that one person can make. I've been told that from my publications on this site, that I've changed a lot of people's minds about many of the topics I write about. Words are very powerful when used in the right way. Gandhi knew this all too well. When I think of homophobic thugs who have beaten me up and want to do me harm, instead of my natural impulse to fuel hatred and return their hatred to them, I think of what Gandhi once said; "I want to change their minds - not to kill them for weaknesses we all possess." It would be just as easy for me to hate homophobes. But where do you go from there? Hatred and intolerance are roads to nowhere.

Sorry I haven't responded to this sooner. I seem to have picked up a rather unpleasant stomach bug. Anyway, I'm pretty much bed ridden. I will respond as soon as I can. I didn't want you to think that I was ignoring you, or had fallen off the face of the earth.

Not to be rude Fritz, but if you say it's a mutation and compare it to cancer that makes me think it's a bad thing. That does make sense though, that it's not necessarily passed down, but affected by our environments, so thank you for pointing that out. That also makes sense because of the different things you may be exposed to as a child/ teenager. One of the biggest things that gets me though is sometimes you can tell if someone will be gay, and other times it's a complete surprise when you find out. There probably isn't a real reason for this, but I thought I would put it out there. This is a totally out of the blue question, but do you know of any ways to help explain being gay to straight people? Like, some people I know are very close minded about the whole thing and think it's wrong and I don't really know what to say to them and it frustrates me because I have no words. Then I just want to tell them to mind their own business and that relationships don't really need to be all that public anyways. But also relationships shouldn't be something you have to hid either, so I don't know. I guess I just honestly don't see why people make such a big fuss over things that don't concern them, you know? You being gay has no direct or indirect effect on my life. You're another human being just as anyone else, and deserve the same respect and rights as everyone else. If there's anything, anything at all you could tell me about it, without me being too intrusive on your life because you really have no idea who I am so I don't want/ intend to be rude, I'd really appreciate it. I've never gotten so angry towards another person before until recently when I realized the whole idea of being gay really was an issue for some people, and I really want to act on this interest and figure out as much as I can about it. Not that one person being more informed would really help that much, but maybe in the long run or something. I don't know. sorry now I'm just kind of rambling again.

Hillary,
Let me address the issue of gay men not "passing on" their gay genes.

First, gay men can and do produce children.

But, beyond that, genetics is much more complicated than just a parent passing an obvious trait on to his or her child. Genes can be recessive (hidden until combined with other genes during conception) and our DNA is changes by our environment. (Cigarette smoke and other toxins can cause DNA to mutate, for example. Viruses can also change our DNA.)

I am an identical twin. My twin is genetically identical to me. Yet, he is straight and I am gay. In cases of identical twins, if one twin is gay, there is a 50% chance that the other will be gay, too. That is far greater than non-twin siblings. This means that homosexuality has to have a genetic cause. Otherwise, the number of twin pairs who are both gay would be much lower.

It is probable that there is something that triggers the "gay gene" to express itself in some people -- some environmental factor.

Our DNA changes over time in response to the environment we live in. So, by the time twins are 30 years old, there may be significant differences in their DNA -- one may develop cancer or have a child with a birth defect.

For all we know, a slight change in DNA may occur before puberty that results in one twin becoming gay. Science just doesn't have enough information right now. Homosexuality could be caused by a virus that alters a child's DNA. Who really knows at this point?

Thanks Bill! Number two, especially the second half, is what me and my friend mostly discussed on the genetic side and that it doesn't really come about until you have hit puberty, just like all kids. He asked me if I thought I could ever love a girl the same way I love him (fyi-I was talking with my boyfriend) or at least in the same type of way, and I said no, probably not, and he agreed. So I agree that being gay can't be a choice, but then one of my other friends asked me if it was genetic, how was it carried down since gay men can't produce children. I didn't know what to say...any suggestions? honestly it really bothers me when other people make fun of gays or think it's gross and I guess I just don't really know what to do in those situations. They're my friends and I don't want to unfriend them because of their ignorance so I tried to explain what I knew about it to them, but I don't think I have a good enough understanding of a gay relationship because I don't have one. But I feel that love for another person is truly and ultimately the significance of any relationship and it shouldn't matter what gender the other person is.

The thing that makes me the most angry though is when people try to defend their hatred towards gays with the bible! ESPECIALLY the state...HELLO...SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE! UGH it makes me sooo angry! I grew up in the church and yeah maybe some one could find a verse against being gay, but there are also soooo many more verses about loving one another that I don't see how they feel it's their place to judge others. The only one with that right is God. I'm in college and there was this guy preaching a few months ago outside and he was having a group conversation (well-he was talking to a group of students) about being gay in relation to the bible. He basically called it a sin. There happened to be a gay boy there who defended himself, which made me really proud of him because most people aren't able to openly state their orientation because they're afraid to, but the preacher basically ignore the boy and interupted him every time he talked. I was really offended, but didn't know what to do. I just walked away because I was so offended by the closemindedness of people.

The other thing I've noticed is that more straight males are against the concept of being gay than females, do you have any idea why that is? My guess was that they're afraid a gay person might hit on them or something, but honestly I'm not really sure at all.

As for Fritz's comment. I have known people who date the opposite sex and almost get married, and then realize they're gay. What do you think triggers this? It seems that he dated a girl because it's what society wanted, but what made him over come society? I guess you can choose to try to not be gay, but I think it's a feeling you just have inside. There's no real explanation. I DEFINITELY agree that there are a very few people, if any, that are 100% one way or the other. People who joke around about it, those jokes come from somewhere, you know? So I understand what you're saying, but if either of you could just continue giving information it'd be greatly appreciated. Basically I'm just trying to figure out where I personally stand on the situation and want to have reasons for it.

Sorry I'm kind of just ramble about stuff and that tihs is really long, and honestly I'd be nervous to talk about this to someone who isn't open minded about gay relationships so everything is coming out really strong, but recently I've become increasingly interested in this issue, and it seems to be becoming a bigger deal to the whole country and I really just want to learn more about it in general and well, someone who has sustained a steady, gay relationship only seems all to perfect of a person to ask. By the way, I commend you on your relationship because 31 years for any couple is an amazing amount of time. Thanks for giving your time to reading this even though I'm just some kid who is basically ignorant like the rest of the world.

I suppose you are right Fritz. I speak only from my own experience, but I should try to resist the urge to talk in absolutes, based on just my personal experience. I'm asked the question a lot. It seems to be of high interest to many people. For me, I was never attracted to women in the least, ever. So to me, the issue of it being a choice was not even entertained. Could I have lived the life of a heterosexual, get married, have kids? Yes, I suppose I could have, but I would have been a married GAY man, who happened to have a wife and kids (and presumably lying to all of them all the while). And more than that, I would have been miserable. Who should be put through that?

From a research point of view, you are probably right. People are all over the place with sexuality. Now that sexuality is less taboo to talk about than it used to be if you didn't happen to be inclined to be heterosexual, I have had numerous "totally straight" men ask me if they could "fool around", you know, just between "buds", because they wanted to "satisfy their curiosity". This has happened at work as well as other settings.

Are these men really "straight", or "curious"? To me, a straight man doesn't need to satisfy a curiosity. I've certainly never been curious about being with a woman, much to the disbelief of these men. So, you are probably right. There are people in between who are more sexually ambivalent in their desires.

I think the argument of choice vs. conditioning is misplaced when it comes to granting equal rights to people. People are now using the argument that we choose to be gay, therefore, it's our own damn fault that society has chosen to deny us equal rights under the law, because we can choose to be "normal". I've actually heard the argument from those trying to deny full legal marriage to gays that gay people are not denied access to marriage; they are perfectly free to marry anyone they want, as long as that person is of the opposite sex. I heard this argument on The Boston Channel one night. And as this man made this argument, all the while, he had this smirk on his face, like the whole thing was some joke. The argument was rightfully quickly dismissed by the moderator.

On the other end of the argument, people argue that we do not choose to be gay, therefore, equal rights should not be denied because we can't help what we are. That is certainly the case with me.

But whatever you believe, equality and equal access to the law (I'm talking about all those marriage rights along with not being fired for being gay) should be available to everyone, regardless of this choice vs conditioning argument.

To scientists and researchers, I suppose the argument is fascinating, although I get nervous when they start trying to isolate the "gay gene", because we all know where that is going to lead.

To me, the argument is nonsensical because I believe we put way too much energy into trying to figure out who is gay, straight, bi, trans.... it's exhausting and who the hell cares? We should just be people who have one thing in common; trying to live life to the fullest without the barriers of labels or laws who's sole purpose is to separate us as people.

I'd like to give my two cents on the choice/genetics topic.

I am currently dating a brilliant psychologist who was married to a woman for 19 years. They have two teenage children. Several months ago, he decided to leave his wife a kids and pursue gay relationships. He considers himself to be bisexual.

We've had numerous discussions about this and he believes that for some people, being gay IS a choice. Sexual orientation isn't absolute. Not many people are 100% gay or 100% straight. A continuum exists between gay and straight and most people fall somewhere between the two points.

Those who are not too close to the 100% gay end of the scale can choose to be straight. They are able to adapt to having only heterosexual relationships and not suffer too much as the result of being deprived of homosexual relations.

There are some people who simply can't choose to be either gay or straight. They are too close to one end of the scale and giving up sex isn't a realistic option.

We recently discussed the "ex-gay" therapies that claim to "cure" homosexuality. What really happens is that those who can be conditioned to ignore their homosexual orientation in favor of their heterosexual orientation appear to have been cured. Those who have very little or no heterosexual orientation don't have anything to redirect their attraction to -- so the therapy fails. Either you have an innate attraction to the opposite sex or you don't. It can't be instilled in you. No one has ever shown that to happen.

Thanks for the post Hillary.

Yes, I have very strong views on the subject of whether or not being gay is a choice. I can tell you and others for a FACT that it is NOT a choice. My problem, and the problem of other gay people, is to convince other people, straight people, that we aren't just saying that to justify equal rights. A couple of thoughts on that...

1) Why should gays, as human beings, have to justify being treated equally? Shouldn't that just be part of human respect and dignity? After 31 years with my partner, shouldn't I have that much respect?

2) If being gay is such a choice, I would seriously challenge the straight people who believe it is a choice to search their memories and to find the time in their lives that they made a choice to be straight. If they are totally honest about that, I would venture to say that they would tell you, "I never chose to be straight. I just am. Never really thought about it really."

Why would someone choose to be part of a minority that is hated, beaten, fired from their jobs for being gay, killed for being gay, or denied a massive amount of marriage benefits just because their life partner didn't happen to be the opposite sex?

People don't choose what they like. People are naturally attracted to certain people, and whether people want to acknowledge that or not, love doesn't always come in one male-female package.

I just wanted to say thank you for posting this b/c I know that a lot of people don't care about Gay rights, which became especially clear when VA passed a new amendment against Gay marriages. I agree that people shouldn't be afraid to express how they feel inside. A few of my friends and I have been questioning whether being gay is a choice or if it's genetic. Both sides have reasonable points and honestly I don't think it's a question that can ever truly be answered, especially by someone who's not gay, but just out of curiosity, do you have any views?