Religion In Politics
This is in response to yesterday’s post entitled Morning Thought. I was going to respond to a comment left on the item, but then realized that it was turning into a full entry in itself.
On the comment left by Dave (and thank you Dave for the comment! :) ), he said, “Until God is taken out of the argument about basic human rights, there will always be a place for hatred and irrational persecution in the name of God.”
Dave, you are absolutely right. I was only trying to address the issue of “tolerance” versus “acceptance”. I’m tired of being “tolerated”, and I really don’t have time of day for people who “tolerate” me. If they see me on an absolutely equal footing with them, then they have “accepted” me.
On the religion issue, there will always be people around who use religion and God as an excuse to hate certain minorities. There’s really nothing I or anyone else can do about that. 9/11 was carried out, after all, for religious reasons.
I’ve come to a place in my life where I no longer care what people like this think. I do care about the actions that come out of the message that they send espousing hate in the name of God (gay bashings). But I see these crimes being prosecuted more and more with more appropriate sentences.
I realize that so many issues facing our community are driven by religion...
...we are denied equality in the name of religion
...people commit horrible crimes against us in the name of religion. In some places in the world, that means DEATH.
Yet, I try to believe in a right (in this country at least) for people to practice their religion. Some of us believe in God, and some do not. And what so many Americans still fail to understand is the fact that just because they have a right to believe in their God, does not give them the right to make the lives of people like me more difficult because of those laws.
This is extremely clear to me when I go to a hearing at the Legislative Office Building in Hartford. This year, we are, for the first time since civil unions were passed in Connecticut two years ago, trying to pass a bill that would allow gay couples to get married. And all through the hearings were speeches about God, religion, and the Bible. People were even quoting scripture at the hearings.
Now, I understand that these were open and public hearings, but one fact seems to elude people. We are talking about civil marriage here - NOT religious marriage. It is even part of the civil union bill that no religion would be required to perform a “gay wedding”. Therefore, all this religious talk in a civil discourse over equality under the law is absolute nonsense. It has no place in the argument. This application of religion when weighing the merits of a public bill violates the very nature and spirit of the separation of church and state.
Yet, no one sees that. It’s not as if people talking at the hearings are ignorant to this fact. They are after all, speaking directly to the legislators that we elect to represent us. And yet, my legislator would not even meet with me. He’s not interested in a) hearing what a gay man has to say and b) not interested in meeting a gay man.
So, I suppose, using his terminology, he can “go to Hell.”
As long as we allow religion into state and federal politics, these things will happen. And they’ve been happening for many years from the time that we introduced “under God” into the Pledge of Allegiance to placing monuments of the Ten Commandments into public parks. In a public school, speaking to school children, “under God” has no place being in the Pledge of Allegiance. The same goes for all the Ten Commandment monuments adorning our public parks. Take them out!
Keep your God and your religion where it belongs: IN A CHURCH!
0 TrackBacks
Listed below are links to blogs that reference this entry: Religion In Politics.
TrackBack URL for this entry: http://billandkent.com/cgi-bin/mt/mt-tb.cgi/2227
4 Comments
Leave a comment
Love your last line. I used to have a T-shirt many years ago that said:
Keep your Bible out of my Bedroom and I'll keep my Penis out of your Pulpit!
Well, there's really no debate on this issue for me. I have absolutely NO INTEREST WHAT SO EVER in quoting scripture because it's pointless. I will not debate on that level.
My experience in religion is that it's best to look after your own life rather than throw stones at other people who you disapprove of. I've seen many churches who are "open and affirming". That simply is another way to tolerate us. It is NOT acceptance of who we are as homosexual people.
My friend, it's not just "some bad people". It's actually most of the people of religion in this country that want us barred from full acceptance in this society. Religion in general is about loving the sinner, but hating the sin. That's simply not good enough for me because there is no love involved. Not when gay people are being victimized and killed every single day AND THE CHURCH REMAINS SILENT ON THIS! How can any person who claims to be of and for God justify that?
Actually, one of the founding principles of America is the separation of church and state. I believe in that principle. I believe in it so much that I'm willing to allow any church in America the right to deny marriage to my partner and I, for as long as they wish too. What I have a problem with is my state and federal government practicing in this bigotry. The church has no business in public affairs. Period.
I never said that God was behind homophobia. Did it ever occur to you that perhaps the savage beatings and killings that gay people endure are a test for you? Perhaps God is watching to see what you do with that, if anything. I have a feeling that Jesus wouldn't be sitting around on his hands thinking deep thoughts and hoping for the best. Jesus was a revolutionary. By today's standards, he would be part of an organization such as ACT UP. He was about action. He was about challenging people. He was all about making waves. By today's standards, Jesus would not be thought of as a peaceful man.
You seem like a nice man, and I'm trying to be fair and compassionate to what you are saying. But, there can be no equality, justice, and dignity for gay people as long as we are held in a second-class status. It's impossible. And most Christians believe that second-class (or lower) is where we belong. I've honestly had it with the church at large.
It's fine. I understand. But if you really feel that "the church has allowed ignorance and bigotry to run things", that is up to "the church" to change. I'm not trying to sound like an ass, but it's really not my problem. Reclaim your church if you feel it's been taken over. And who knows, if you all come to a point where I'm REALLY ACCEPTED in "the church", I may come back.
I know that - always have. It's good to see that you know that as well. Too bad most churches don't.
I actually no longer hold any hatred towards people who despise gay people. You see, I am a spiritual person and I've let go of all of that. My indignation with the church is not hatred. It's disappointment -- deep disappointment, in the shortcomings of people, their complete unwillingness to understand what it's like to be disenfranchised from society, and giving in to how easy it is to throw stones at the most hated group of people in society today, homosexuals.
When we moved to Coventry, I wanted to take part in a church here. It's pointless in my mind to name the church, because they all have pretty much the same problem, with the possible exception of the Unitarian Universalists, who actually do try to be accepting. If they had their way, they would marry gay couples in their church.
I tried to get Kent to go to this church as well. I emailed the pastor of the church and introduced ourselves. I was honest and open. That's how I live my life now. I told him about my partner, and that we would like to attend their church.
I received a reply back telling us that we would not be welcome in their church, and to kindly never show up.
God would be so proud. And you know what? I have a feeling that Jesus would have shown up, and it wouldn't be pretty.
Out of suffering have emerged the strongest souls; the most massive characters are seared with scars. - Kahlil Gibran
Please stop blaming God, and people who believe in God, for the bigotry and discrimination that some bad people misplace at God's hands. Deciding not to believe in God is certainly your choice, but the venom and hatred you spew towards God and believers is every bit as bigoted, closed-minded, and hateful as any homophobe or racist.
This is America, and you have NO more right to demand that God be kept "in church where it belongs" than anyone else does to tell you to keep your love for your partner in the closet.
God is real, and God does love all people, including those he happened to create gay. It's a hideous lie that God's behind homophobia and discrimination. The idiots who use the Bible as a weapon of hate don't represent the church, and don't represent God. They represent themselves and their own foolishness.
PLEASE...I'm seriously asking this as strongly as possible with all due respect...PLEASE take a look at people like Robin Myers in Oklahoma City, at Bishop John Shelby Spong, and at the HUNDREDS of open and affirming congregations that are leading the way in efforts to establish equality, justice, and dignity for gay people. Please read the truth from them, that while the Bible does contain a good deal that would concern any decent thinking person (bear in mind that while it contains wonderful truths it also contains a lot of hooey, it was after all written by people and all people are capable of error) it does NOT say one single WORD about homosexuality.
That's right, there's the truth of the matter you can discuss the next time someone's blaming their own fear and ignorance of homosexuality on God. Homosexuality is not mentioned in the Bible. AT ALL. EVER.
Yes, some specific sex acts are mentioned, but homosexuality isn't an action. And those acts are mentioned in long lists of old Jewish law meant for people in a different time and place thousands of years ago based on what they knew at that time. It says you can't wear polyester or eat the shrimp cocktail at Red Lobster, I haven't heard the church raising Cain about those. It says you can't have sex with a woman on her period, where are the people lining up to talk about how THAT is "destroying the traditional marriage"? Nowhere, of course, because these people are morons. If you actually READ Sodom and Gommorrah's story, you'll see it's not about homosexuality, but in case one is too dense to get that, they can go back and read later very specific verses about what the sin of S and G were...and it's NOT gay people. The whole story has a smell of myth to it, the idea that God turned someone into a pillar of salt for looking back at their hometown on their way out on the turnpike isn't the God we know and love.
There are a couple of mentions in Paul's letter to the Romans that will get brought up, but the line about "homosexual offenders" is a rotten translation, NOT Paul's words. No word for "homosexual" EXISTED in Paul's time, and earlier translations did not include this word, it was added later by PEOPLE who weren't Paul, and certainly weren't God.
And, as is the case with other examples, those using Romans to excuse homophobia must be asked if they support ALL of Paul's law being the law of the land, for you see Paul also said that women weren't to be allowed to speak in the church. Not that they couldn't be ministers, not that they couldn't speak during the service, they were not allowed to speak in the building AT ALL. If something they thought needed discussed came up, they were to tell their husband about it at home, and if he thought it was valid, he could raise the issue.
Where's Ann Coulter and where's Eagle Forum and where's the rest of the radical right on THIS one?
Sorry if I'm coming across like a rant, but this stuff drives me insane. The church has allowed ignorance and bigotry to run things for so long that thousands, if not millions, of gay people have been told "you're not welcome here." It's hard to imagine seeing garbage like these "ex-gay ministries" which are a complete sham and not be mad at God about it.
But please understand the amount of not just tolerance but real leadership in civil rights and dignity and equality issues is coming from the church. Not everyone inside a church is Fred Phelps.
God doesn't just belong in church, He belongs everywhere. And gay people have just as much right to hang out with Him as anyone else.
I hope you'll follow up a bit on this and at least see that not EVERYONE beyond stained glass is against you, the enemy. The hatred you have is borne out of an anger that you have every justification to hold, but it should be pointed at the REAL culprits, and God's just their scapegoat.
There's a wonderful line in a song in Stephen Sondheim's "A Little Night Music":
As I have often stated,
It's intolerable being tolerated.
While lecturing on 18th century decorative arts to my design class yesterday, I showed some Masonic architectural ornament and was reminded that the great majority of the founders of the country were Masons. Freemasonry was an anti-clerical movement particularly opposed to and opposed by the Catholic Church.
People who wish to deny Separation of Church and State don't like to hear how heavily Masonic the Founding Fathers were, but there can be no question of exactly what they believed in when they were setting things up.